Feedback 2.0 details revealed and seller reactions.

Today in the UK, eBay revealed much more detail about Feedback 2.0 and announced that it will be rolling out in 7 markets in late Feb (UK/IE/AU/BE/IN/IT/PL).

First, there's some new terminology to get familiar with. The sub-ratings are called "Detailed Seller Ratings" (let's call them DSRs) - and that's where the buyer can now rate the buyer not only on the transaction but 4 sub components of the transaction.  You can see this illustrated in section B to the left.

This is by far the biggest change because it has the most potential to really change seller/buyer behavior.  Whether it will be for the better or worse is the big debate going on right now.

On DSR here are the actual questions that eBay asks the buyers about the transaction:

1. How accurate was the item description?
2. How satisfied were you with the seller's communication?
3. How quickly did the seller deliver the item
4. How reasonable were the postage and packaging charges?

Buyers have 1-5 stars on this part of the feedback.  eBay will only start to show your average detailed seller ratings if you have 10 or more detailed ratings.  They are only represented by stars and rounded to the nearest half (if you have 2.4, that's 2 and a half stars).

Sellers are not able to see the DSRs left by specific buyers (this is going to be tricky IMO), but you can see and buyers still DO leave the normal pos/neg/neut feedback.

Some sellers make it a policy to block neg-leavers (can be nutty buyers), so I wonder how long it will take nutty buyers to realize they can leave you a much nastier feedback situation by giving you a neut/positive and then giving you 1 stars across the board.

Seller's I've talked to spend a LOT of time dealing with feedback issues and some are concerned this is going to make it even more time consuming.  Others see it as a net positive because they figure anything that shows they are better than the next seller is a good thing and today's feedback doesn't achieve that.

eBay Strategies readers, what's your feedback on feedback 2.0?

Comments

[L Vesterstein]

Hi again Scott, I just wanted to add that another major problem with this system is that not everyone uses it. So you can have someone with a 95% feedback rating, only 37 total feedbacks yet no detailed seller ratings and then someone with a 99% positive feedback rating with over 4000 total feedbacks yet the account with the higher feedback rating and total transactions can be suspended or penalized because a few bad apples not only left neg feedback but bad detailed selller ratings. Ebay is putting selling limitations on sellers accounts due to the detailed seller ratings and not the overall picture, the system simply does not work and they did not calculate the percentages right when they came up with it. If they are going to use it then everyone should be subject to fill everything out on the detailed sellers ratings, even those that leave positve feedback as most of the time they do not fill this out which would help keep a sellers detailed star ratings higher instead of just those who feel it like leaving it, especially the sour buyers which leave bad ratings creating a major imbalance in the system so it is not accurate what so ever yet ebay is basing their accounts limitations on this, boy is this bad!!!! So, the system is not accurate and way off balance and like I said it is a Trojan Horse for buyers to use against sellers, they are going to create a huge mess with this and in my opinion it will not last as I know ebay is about making money and if they keep limiting sellers accounts then eventualy less will be sold and profits lost. Buyers still have lots of options of recourse with sellers such as filing a claim thru paypal and ebay plus leaving negative feedback. Most sellers work reasonable issues out with buyers but ebay can't expect sellers to put up with bidders who do not pay after 2 months or want to return several items after 2 months and then let these buyers leave neg feedback and now bad detailed seller ratings which can put one's selling account in jeopardy instantly as you need to have over 4.5 stars detailed sellers ratings to maintain full selling priveleges, boy did they go wrong with this idea!! It just blows me away how stupid and bad it is, a 5 year old could have come up with a better plan!! Sincerely, L Vesterstein

[L Vesterstein]

Boy whoever came up with this idea of detailed seller ratings is clearly not a seller or active ebay user, this is one of the worst changes to date ebay has made without throughly thinking it through. Believe me this is going to be the downfall of sellers and this rating system is already taking it's toll, here is why. I have been ebaying since 2002 with over a 99% positive feedback rating and all of a sudden the other day I get a notice from ebay that my account has a 30 day selling limit put on it that only allows me to sell 75% of what I have sold in the last 90 days, nothing like this have even happened to my account ever before. I was trying to figure out why as I have no open disputes, I have never not shipped someone an item, I respond to emails instantly and ship quickly and my feedback is still great, most businesses consider a 90% plus positive rating of customer satisfaction excellent, they even use that percentage as bragging rights in their ads. Well, now I know this is due to the new detailed seller rating ebay put in place without thinking of the reprecussions it would have on sellers and ebay as a whole. I had a buyer who did not pay for an item for over two months and was notorious for doing this to sellers and then lashing out at them. I contacted other sellers who had dealt with this buyer and they all said basically the same thing, that he was a bad seed from the start and should not even be on ebay. Well, he was suspended, then reinstated right away anyway, go figure, but before he was suspended he left me nasty feedback and I'm know the lowest star ratings he could as I noticed that right away. He left me low ratings on item as described, shipping time etc without ever having received the item because he did not pay for it, now how does that work!!!! Then I had another buyer recently who wanted to return 3 pair of chaps she won from me over two months ago and at that point no I would not take them back. Well, she also left me bad feedback on all three items and bad ratings. So now my item as described seller rating is at 4.5 even though my feedback is still 99% yet my account is now in jeapordy and sellers need to know if they get down on the star rating system to 4.5, which is still high, ebay can limit or even suspend their account, even if their feedback is 100% which is just crazy and completely determental to selling on ebay. I have contacted several sellers with 100% positive feedback yet their star ratings are at 4.6 to let them know they are at risk to account restrictions which to me is just ludicrous. Also, now you have buyers who can leave you positive feedback yet give you average or bad star ratings and put all sellers in jeopardy, this makes no sense and boy I wish I knew who the bonehead was who thought he was making a great change, what a complete idiot!! He sure made it a scary thing for sellers I can tell you that and just wait, it will start to rollercoaster if it hasn't already. Here's the kicker, these ratings also only apply if you have 10 or more feedback ratings yet everyone knows that most frauds or con artists on ebay have less than 10 feedbacks yet they are not even subject to this rating system, just long outstanding honest ebayers are apparently!!! We all know ebay customer support thru phone or email is pretty much a joke when it comes to disussing these issues, or really any for that matter, and that is somewhere ebay could make a change for the better. Ebay wants sellers to respond punctionally to emails yet 72 hours plus you are lucky if you get a response from ebay regarding an issue and then it is often automated and does not even answer the question you asked in the first place. So now buyers have sellers basically by the nose hairs and somehow ebay expects us no matter how good of a job we do to be perfect, 100% ratings plus almost 5 stars, how unrealistic is that, it is like working for a German tank driver!! It is bascially going to make all sellers stand at attention for buyers and be held at their will always saying yes mam, yes sir no matter what and even then you are still at risk as a seller so sellers beware and I think we should get a major petition on this going, I even question the legalality of it. Contact ebay, let them know this policy not only stinks but it is deadly to sellers and does not work. Boy, I wish I knew the idiot who came up with this brainfart of an idea and those who thought it would be great, they should all be fired. Why would they try to fix something when it was not broke, buyers can still leave their opinion with the feedback that is in place, why add more crap to it? Well now they can hide their opinions and bascially destroy sellers with them in the new detailed seller rating system. Nice Trojan Horse ebay gave buyers so sellers and all ebayers, as I am a buyer to but do not even use this sytem, let ebay know we won't stand for it!! Sincerely, L Vesterstein

[hazthedazzle]

Boy whoever came up with this idea of detailed seller ratings is clearly not a seller or active ebay user, this is one of the worst changes to date ebay has made without throughly thinking it through. Believe me this is going to be the downfall of sellers and this rating system is already taking it's toll, here is why. I have been ebaying since 2002 with over a 99% positive feedback rating and all of a sudden the other day I get notice from ebay that my account has a 30 day selling limit put on it that only allows me to sell 75% of what I have sold in the last 90 days, nothing like this have even happened to my account ever before. I was trying to figure out why as I have no open disputes, have never not shipped someone an item, I respond to emails instantly and ship quickly and my feedback is still great, most businesses consider a 90% plus positive rating of customer satisfaction excellent, they even use that percentage as bragging rights in their ads. Well, now I know this is due to the new detailed seller rating ebay put in place without thinking of the reprecussions it would have on sellers and ebay as a whole. I had a buyer who did not pay for an item for over two months and was notorious for doing this to sellers and then lashing out at them. I contacted other sellers who had dealt with this buyer and they all said basically the same thing, that he was a bad seed from the start and should not even be on ebay. Well, he was suspended, then reinstated right away anyway go figure, but before he was suspended he left me nasty feedback and I'm know the lowest star ratings he could as I noticed that right away. He left me low ratings on item as described, shipping time etc without ever have received the item because he did not pay for it, now how does that work!!!! Then I had another buyer recently who wanted to return 3 pair of chaps she won from me over two months and at that point no I would not take them back. Well, she also left me bad feedback on all three items and bad ratings. So now my item as described seller rating was at 4.5 even though my feedback is still 99% yet my account is now in jeapordy and sellers need to know if they get down on the stats to 4.5, which is still high, ebay can limit or even suspend their accounts, even if their feedback is 100% which is just crazy and completely determental to selling on ebay. I have ontacted everal buyer with 100% positive feedback yet their star ratings are at 4.6 to let them know they are at risk which to me is just ludicrous. Also, now you have buyers who can leave you positive feedback yet give you average or bad star ratings and put all sellers in jeopardy, this makes not sense and boy I wish I knew who the bonehead was who thought he was making a great change, what an complete idiot!! He sure made is a scary thing for sellers I can tell you that and just wait, it will start to rollercoaster if it hasn't already. Here's the kicker, these ratings also only apply if you have 10 or more feedback ratings yet everyone knows that most frauds or con artists on ebay have less than 10 feedbacks yet they are not even subject to this rating system, just long outstanding honest ebayers are apparently. We all know ebay customer support thru phone or email is pretty much a joke when it comes to disussing these issues, or really any for that matter, and that is somewhere ebay could make a change for the better. Ebay wants sellers to respond punctionally to emails yet 72 hours plus you are lucky if you get a response from ebay regarding an issue and then it is often automated and does not even answer the question you asked in the first place. So now buyers have sellers basically by the nose hairs and somehow ebay expects us no matter how good of a job we do to be perfect, 100% ratings plus almost 5 stars, how unrealistic is that? It is bascially going to make all sellers stand at attention for sellers and be held at their will always saying yes mam, yes sir and even then you are still at risk as a seller so sellers beware and I think we should get a major petition on this going, I even question the legalality of it. Contact ebay, let them know this policy not only stinks but it is deadly to sellers and does not work. Boy, I wish I knew the idiot who created came up with this brainfart of an idea and those who thought it would be great, they should all be fired. Why would they try to fix something when it was not broke, buyers can still leave their opinion with feedback. Well now they can hide them and bascially destroy sellers with the new rating system. Nice Trojan Horse ebay gave them so let ebay know we won't stand for it!! Sincerely, L Vesterstein

[RadioComputerSupply]

In reading Collin's comment about lazy (or in hurry) buyer completing feedback and maybe giving low star rating... I would like to see the default of 5 starts for positive and if there was an issue let the buyer take the time to lower the ratings in the particular catagory as an additional step or effort.

Also I agree that shipping time could be an issue since it is out of our hands. It may be difficult but it would be nice if they could tie the PayPal shipping date to the item feedback along with paid dates. This would make public the delay in the buyers payment and close up the gap for the close of sale and actual received item date.

[Arnie C]

Anything that makes the site more transparent is a good thing. Anything that makes the buyer experience better is also a good thing. Feedback 2.0 kills two birds with one stone.

[dimes]

I was one of the guinea pigs when eBay was testing the feedback system a couple of months ago. Instead of seeing the usual feedback screen, I was asked to rate the transactions on the multiple factors shown in Scot's screenshot.

I've been buying on eBay since 1998, so I'm no novice at leaving feedback, but assigning a number rating was more difficult than it looks.

Take "delivery time". If I get a package from someone 3000 miles away in a week, and a package from someone 100 miles away in a week, does that mean the faraway seller shipped earlier? Does that rate a '4' vs a '3'? What if the closer seller shipped first, but the PO didn't deliver? The hell with it - everyone got a '4'. (I recently had a priority package go missing in the US postal system. It was mailed on Oct. 27, and I received it on Jan. 15th. I gave the seller good feedback, since the delay was not her fault. I don't know how I'd have rated 'delivery' on that one if I was using the number system.)

Seller communication? If the seller sent me an email with a tracking number, they got a '5'. If the seller sent an email without a tracking number, they got a '4'. If the seller sent no email, they got a '3', because for all I know my spam filter might have blocked their message.

Item as described? One of the items I was leaving feedback for was much, much nicer than I'd been led to believe via the seller's photo and description. In theory, I should have rated this category a '1' or a '2', but why would I penalize someone for under-reporting the quality of their goods? (I gave that guy a '5', which more or less negates the value of the system, but no way was I going to lowball him.)

As far as 'shipping charges' go, I don't buy if I think a seller is gouging on the shipping amount. The sellers who charged me only the actual shipping amount got '5's. The sellers who added a buck or two for handling fees also got '5's if the price of the item was lower than it would have been had they included the handling charges in the item price - I care about the total cost, not the percentage eBay gets.

I'm not opposed to a more detailed feedback system in theory, but I think the amount of time it takes to complete is going to lead to a lot of sellers getting '3's or '4's across the board, based on what a buyer feels is "satisfactory".

[Randy T]

Large scale ebay sellers, (I mean, REALLY large scale sellers) couldn't care less about getting bad feedback. To do so would be a waste of payroll labor. Bad feedback has NO real impact at all on catagories where rock bottom price means everything. Almost NO buyers check the feedback for sellers of commonplace, cheap, wholesale goods.

Don't believe me? Go look at the past month of feedback for sellers like inflatablemadness, moviemarz, eforcity, redtagmarket, and ANY of the many ebay IDs for big media catagory sellers. What you will find is very illuminating....and remember, it says more about ebay buyers than it really does about ebay sellers. Sad, but true.

I do believe feedback still matters when sellers are offering high-end antiques and expensive items in general, but in 2007, thats not what ebay looks like-that was what ebay looked like in 1997...

But my point is that to the many companies that gross in the millions from their ebay stores...it's just a quaint notion for them to think that they would take negative feedback personally...sad, but true

[Tony P.]

Delivery Time? Is that one of the "Star Fields"? (rhetorical question)

Now I'm responsible for the Post Office. Ho Boy! Buyers wanted a way to complain without getting that nasty NEG in retaliation and ebay has obliged.

Forget about Media Mail zero stars...they're a Given at this point...even the Priority that takes 3 days (OMG, not 2?!) will get ya zero. New buyers = new expectations.

[Chris]

1. How accurate was the item description?
If buyers aren't satisfied from the description you have to ask why the hell they bid, but buyers are notorious for asking questions that are answered in the description so this is a baddie!
2. How satisfied were you with the seller's communication?
How many buyers will rank sellers down for too much communication classing it as spam? How will sellers know if they're being marked down for too much or for not enough emails?
3. How quickly did the seller deliver the item
See http://www.tamebay.com/2007/01/feedback-wasnt-broke-so-they-fixed-it.html for description of two instances where a seller shipped as soon as possible with one taking five days and one taking less than 24 hours. I can see buyers not realising that weekends slow shipping times.
4. How reasonable were the postage and packaging charges?
As per 1. why would a buyer buy if they aren't happy? Also how many buyers actually know what's a reasonable shipping cost and what's not?

Finally I have to say in Bill Cobbs announcement he went to great pains to emphasis to US buyers that feedback 2.0 would be throughly tested in territories other than the US. It's nice to know that while he doesn't want eBay.com sellers to suffer the ramification if eBay gets it wrong that he has no qualms about inflicting it on the UK and other territories. He needs to rethink the implications of pacifying US sellers when he implies he doesn't care about sellers in other countries. About time the *worst* changes on eBay are inflicted on the US first, which after all isn't exactly breaking any records for eBay's bottom line!

Feedback has long been the one thing that you could trust on eBay - any changes (and these aren't minor) has a good chance of wrecking the trust in the community forever. If Cobb thinks it's a good thing he shouldn't insult sellers on other eBay sites by emphasising their feedback isn't worthy of protecting in deference to the US sellers! X-(

[Collin @ IBSM]

I am not entirely certain that hiding the DSR feedback left by the individual buyer will benefit either the buyer or the seller. That means that other buyers will not be able to see it either, and that as FB accumulates, the star ratings lose the power to inform as well. What if a new type of buyer emerges...one that is lazy? If buyers are too lazy to fill out the star ratings after a purchase (who HASN'T gotten an angry reply to a request to leave FB after a sale?), and leave single stars (or whatever the default star rating is) across the board, that can be a huge blow to seller ratings. The worst part being, other (potential) buyers couldn't discern that the lazy buyer(s) "Christmas-Tree'd" the form. It becomes more of a survey. Of course, this is only a possibility and mere conjecture at this point.

Additionally, I think that it could potentially rob the buyer of their ability to catch the attention of the non-responsive seller with the threat of negative feedback and ratings. Moreover, it prevents other buyers from benefiting as much as they could from the ratings of fellow consumers. If knowledge is power...it seems that FB 2.0 needs to turn up the juice a smidge.

With all of that said, it certainly is a step in the right direction and shows that eBay is at least attempting to address the problem. I like that eBay is no longer are afraid to touch the 'third rail'. FB 2.0 may not be the Holy grail, but it is better than FB 1.0, to be certain.

Just my $.02. You got what you paid for.

~Collin @ IBSM

[Degu]

Exactly, Billstuff.

This could hurt sellers at half.com, where Media is used widely and often the shipping reimbursment isn't enough to cover the cost. This happens a lot with textbooks and the like.

So many buyers simply don't understand how slow Media can be, and they end up complaining when they get what they pay for...

[Mike Searles]

Sellers of 'complex' products in the UK (such as those that require fitting/install, or those that may differ in minute ways based upon model year) are taking a hard look at their current set of descriptions. This, however, is unlikely to better the buyer experience, but may give the seller more comprehensive protection for their reputation.

[BILLSTUFF]

I think that once U.S. sellers are rated on shipping time, fewer of them will offer USPS Media Mail to their domestic customers and USPS Surface/Economy Mail to their international customers. That means less shipping options for buyers, and I don't see that as a good thing.