Mega Finding 2.0 update!

Note: Every time I blog about Finding 2.0, I get lots of comments about sellers+buyers hating the new finding.  The general thought is that millions of buyers are used to searching eBay a certain way, and why should eBay change?  The reality is that the eBay buying (finding is key to that of course) hasn't kept up with the rest of the internet and they have a good 5-10yrs of innovation to catch up on.  Thus, I think it's important for eBay to fix this, but do it in such a way that improves the experience for NEW buyers, INACTIVE buyers and ACTIVE buyers. To me, that's a very interesting problem and I'll continue to track eBay's progress and report on things as they go.

Finding 2.0 from the horse's mouth
Last week, I theorized that eBay was opting more consumers into Finding 2.0 and provided some background on the new feature.  I had a call this week with Jeff King and other members of eBay's Finding team to help clarify some questions that ChannelAdvisor's customers have about Finding 2.0 and was able to glean many interesting tidbits that eBay cordially said I could share with readers.

15-sku rule/de-dup/even-selection/bump or dump?
First, within the seller community, there is a fair amount of fear-uncertainty and doubt around a bunch of Finding changes that were announced on May 19 called "Policy Updates".  Unfortunately, most sellers don't know about these because they were Finding changes kind of buried in a 'policy update' note so hopefully we can get the word out.  The three major things you need to know about are:

• Removal of the 15 listing limit - You can now list as many of any product as you want, vs. being limited to 15
• De-duping - HOWEVER, if you list the same item multiple times, eBay will only display 1 (yes one -1, uno).
• Even selection - The number of listings from any one seller will be limited to 10 per page

Long-time eBay sellers that read these bullets will hopefully realize that these three little bullets effectively turn most eBay scheduling/listing strategies on their head.  No longer can you saturate the search results or try to own 10% of the first page, etc.

The trick here is the first bullet (15-listing) went live May 19, but the other bullets have not, so sellers have reported competitors flooding eBay with lots of duplicate listings.  Also, the original post isn't very clear on how the de-dup/even selection will work. I clarified several areas with eBay:

ES Q: With de-duping, will the buyer get a visual cue that there are multiple listings?
eBay A: No, the buyer will see a note at the bottom of SERP that says: "Note: duplicates have been omitted".

ES Q: With even-selection, if a seller has 1000 unique items on eBay and 100 would have been on page 1 with BestMatch, what happens to the 90 that do not display?  Are they bumped to page 2+ or are they 'dumped' and the new BestMatch page 2 items are shown?
eBay A: The items are bumped, not dumped.

ES Q: When are the de-dupe and even selection changes rolling to the site?
eBay A: Towards the end of July

ES Q: Sellers are very entrepreneurial and tend to do things like opening multiple accounts, rotate titles, etc. to get around these kinds of things.
eBay A: We're anticipating a variety of optimizations and believe we'll be able do things like link accounts that eliminate gaming of the system.

(speculation) - I'm sure eBay would have preferred to roll the changes simultaneously with the 15-sku rule change, but I imagine getting some of these features to work at the scale eBay deals with have taken longer to get out than anticipated. 

Finding 2.0 update
We turned the conversation to F2 and eBay did say that more people than expected are opting in (and staying in) to finding 2.  They mentioned that later in July they will be experimenting with a number of features.  A couple to keep an eye out for:

• Improved recall - as F2 is 'learning' about how people search, its getting better at helping buyers find what they are looking for.  For example, a search like "size xxl sweatshirt" today on F2 will not automatically know that the size should be xxl and will instead do a text search for XXL in the title.  Future F2 tweaks will improve this.
• Change to the navigation/refinement - In the current F2, if you enter "shoes", as you select refinements, they are given little boxes that show up under the search box.  The consumer can click the 'x' to remove that refinement.  eBay is going to test a different way of doing this (which I think looks cleaner) that keeps the refinement nav to the left and allows the consumer to tick boxes on the left vs. bouncing the consumer around between the left/top/etc.
• The next one is exciting enough that I wanted to cover it in its own topic:

AuctionZone: An interesting fixed-price/auction hybrid approach - from Italy
eBay has been experimenting with how to achieve their goal of improving the fixed-price eBay experience, while continuing to keep the auction heritage. For example, earlier in the year, John Donahoe talked about a split-screen test (fixed price left/auction right) they were doing and it turns out that eBay has been testing something called AuctionZone in Italy that is working well and will see testing in the US shortly.

In Italy, eBay is largely fixed price and there is more of a store-in-search kind of experience.  To surface auction-style listings, eBay created a strip at the top of results for auctions (ordered in good old 'ending first' it appears.)  This strip is essentially 7 snapshot chiclets and a scrolling nave and a little 'quick nav' thingy (bottom right - 5 little boxes with an orange punch-out that shows where you are) that you can use to zoom around the auction results faster than the page flip.  Here's an example screen shot or see it live here (warning: some Italian could be handy) : (the red box ans AUCTIONZONE text were added by me to make sure you don't miss this innovation).

While I think that in the USA, 7 auctions/SERP is probably not enough exposure for auctions, it is encouraging to see eBay continuing to work on this challenge and test different solutions.  I'm excited to see them leverage snapshot view for it because....

Buyers love snapshot
One of my favorite (and the reason I'm staying opted-in to be honest with you) features of F2 is snapshot view.  This has previously been called Window Shopping, and now is called snapshot view (I liked WS better, personally).  What's neat is you can really quickly browse through hundreds of items and look at large versions of the pics very quickly.  For example, here's one of my favorite buyer searches on eBay (star wars - highest price), in snapshot view. With a few 'hovers' of the mouse I can now see what is interesting here, zip to the next page, next page and be done in seconds with what used to take 20-30 mins.  This means as a buyer that I check this and other favorite searches more often and I'm finding more interesting things than I did in traditional 'list view'.

eBay confirmed that Snapshot view is getting a lot of play from buyers and they are excited to see how it performs for the holidays.

Implications for sellers?
There's a lot of detailed information here that we covered and if you sell on eBay, here are the implications:

• As the Finding experience changes, you need to make sure that consumers are still finding your items (DSRs, DSRs, DSRs!)
• The old 'saturate search results' strategies will go away when the new de-dupe and even selection changes roll.
• (speculation) Given the way the changes are going and some behaviors we're seeing in BestMatch, I'm getting the sense that the best strategies are going to involve multi-quantity fixed-price listings. BM seems to look at conversion data (conversions/listing) and if you have 20 items to sell and attempt to do it 1 listing at a time, you can do no better than 1 conversion per listing.  However if you had a 7 or 10 day fixed-price listing with quant=20 in there, as the items sell, you should be able to (if you have great DSRs) get some better exposure because your conv/listing will obviously be higher than something that is 1:1.

That's a lot of information for one post, after you digest it let me know what you think and if you have any follow-up questions.  I'll continue to keep an eye on F2 and let everyone know if/when any of these items 'go live'.

Seeking Alpha Disclosure: I am long Google/GOOG.

Comments

[Wayne]

I looked at snapshot. Based on 3 queries, snapshot only offered a blowup photo if ebay's picture manager was being used. Anyone else noticed this?

[o.c.d.collectibles]

well, it looks like ebay has changed their listing policies once again! Now it's only ONE item listed in a category where there are any identical listings in the same category. It looks like they are trying hard to fix what's broken, the trust of the sellers who've been on the site for more than 2 years. Too late for that, I'm afraid...

They need to separate the 2 types of listings into to types of sales venues. AUCTIONS (oh yeah, that flea market junk that JD hates so much) and "RETAIL" the stuff that keeps you advertising mavens in business!

[o.c.d.collectibles]

ahh..and I thought the last comment wouldn't get posted, but alas..it DID!

Think about it. The sellers who navigate ebay know the place backwards and forwards. They have all the search terms and search categories memorized! They can speed through searches and find whatever they want..in the "Classic Version". It IS already an advanced search interface.

If sellers are able to operate it effectively, then buyers should be able to as well? Well, maybe not, but with time, it doesn't take too long to learn.

Obviously, if a seller can't operate the search, or ridiculous items pop up that have nothing to do with the search terms, and then loads of unwanted gallery photos and advertisements trying to force items down the user's throat..what do the buyers experience? Something easier and better to operate? One buyer was looking for old photos, and what she got was a page full of nudity! Now she cannot erase it from her search. It continually pops up. That's a buyer!! So is this buyer going to find what they want??Really, come on now, what buyers are so stupid that they can't find what they want and need? The trouble is, ebay must think they are stupid, or the would not find it necessary to push the wrong "stuff" at them repeatedly.Give the buyers a little more credit.

[o.c.d.collectibles]

Scot, what planet are you on? Have you logged on to the discussion boards in the SEARCH and the MY EBAY BETA testing threads? Take a few moments to notice the outrageous number of complaints! On the MY EBAY BETA test feedback thread, there are close to 3,000 posts over one month. There's something desperately wrong with this picture!

What kind of company locks their sellers into a forced test that doesn't work? How do the numbers of sales go up if sellers are not listing, and buyers are not searching? Whose truths do you see?

Is this just a case of denial because you are stuck with the stock?

[o.c.d.collectibles]

Scot, what planet are you on? Have you logged on to the discussion boards in the SEARCH and the MY EBAY BETA testing threads? Take a few moments to notice the outrageous number of complaints! On the MY EBAY BETA test feedback thread, there are close to 3,000 posts over one month. There's something desperately wrong with this picture!

What kind of company locks their sellers into a forced test that doesn't work? How do the numbers of sales go up if sellers are not listing, and buyers are not searching? Whose truths do you see?

Is this just a case of denial because you are stuck with the stock?

[Steve]

First of all, where is Jakob Nielsen when you need him!?

@Andy
1. "...sellers don't really figure in this!"

> If I'm paying for exposure, I most definitely do figure into the equation... Cash doesn't talk, it screams.

2. "...the sites listed don't get to say where they rank."

> While that may be true *in theory*, in the trenches it is not. Algorithms are algorithms and they all have their unique pressure points and weaknesses, no matter how much "innovation" you try to inject into it.

I actually like it when sites shake up their algos, because it gives the more intrepid of us the opportunity to quickly learn the new algo and take advantage of it. (not spamming, of course, those people are always a pain, regardless)

I agree that "search experience" is very important, but to the extent that keeping your web servers online so that your site is available 24/7 without significant downtime is very important... It's not a panacea.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And if you're going to "improve" it, then IMPROVE IT for crying out loud... Don't throw a bunch of slow-loading, title-less images on a SERP and expect anything but buyer bewilderment and plummeting sales conversions.

Frankly, I think eBay is in a flailing, panic induced "innovation binge". Their stock is in the gutter while Amazon and Google march right on relatively unaffected.

But I swear, in this economy, we need eBay acting freaky like we need a friggin' bag on our hip!

Jeff Bezos is smirking.

The Borg collective at Google are scanning them.

And eBay is having a mid-life crisis meltdown, Bette Midler style.

Oh the joys of Web 2.0...

"You must make a friend of Horror.... Horror and mortal terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared... They are truly enemies." -Colonel Kurtz, Apocalypse Now

[Paul_WallsThatSpeak]

""""However if you had a 7 or 10 day fixed-price listing with quant=20 in there, as the items sell, you should be able to (if you have great DSRs) get some better exposure because your conv/listing will obviously be higher than something that is 1:1."""

That is great info! I will definitely give it a go myself. This kind of stuff keeps me coming back to this blog.

I just noticed the list view for the first time. Pretty rad.

[Andy Geldman]

This is all about the buyer experience, and there's no doubt that eBay's search was poor for many buyers. I manage to get what I want out of it by copious filtering, exclusion keywords, and so on - "advanced" options that many searchers will ignore.

Search is all about relevance and ranking, keeping it simple, and allowing users to use their own style. If I want to just use keywords and ignore "advanced" options, let me do that and show me the best results. If I want to specify lots of extra options then make it easy for me to do that. Above all, don't be intrusive - let me do my own thing. It was that intrusiveness that provided an uncomfortable buying experience when I tried Finding 2.0.

These things should come out in Usability testing (if they are being rigorous!) and take them down the right path.

I hate to say it, but sellers don't really figure in this! It's all about the buyer experience, in the same way that searching on Google is about the searcher experience - the sites listed don't get to say where they rank.

[Carol]

When Finding made Snapshot the default I opted out of there so fast it would make your head spin.

Snapshot is like a turtle stuck in the mud on dial-up connections. Takes forever for all the little pics to load and none of the fly-out windows will open at all.

Yes, there are plenty of us out here in the rural areas that are still stuck in dial-up with nothing else available other than satellite (which I've found can be even slower than dial-up)

[Patricia013]

All I can say is baloney...more hocus-pocus, more business lost. I'm afraid they'll have to just keep going until they "invent" themselves clean out of business KISS fell by the wayside years ago and with it...new buyers who come in and look around and leave! Nice work Ebay....NOT! You can bet I keep my website so simple any 5 year old can find their way around it!

[Keith]

For now, this is absolute BS. The 15 item rule is still in the list of reportable offenses, but is no longer enforced. (Report this listing link on the item page)

BM searches STILL have more than 15 identical items. IT IS NOT FILTERED!!!!!!! I was told this feature would take effect mid June 2008, then told first of July, now mid July, and it's still not up and running.

Better buying experience indeed! In the meantime while they are fixing bugs, the site is flooded with listings, eBay is getting LOTS of insertion fees, and overall, we sellers are getting lower sales. Moving from 10 items to 15 in 2005 was a big mistake, and removing them now is an even bigger one, with or without BM.

[ end RANT ]

[pwb]

There's a big risk here in that eBay may rid itself of its primary uniqueness which is auctions. By switching to Best Match and courting large sellers, eBay is trying to more resemble Amazon and Google, which seems attractive until you recognize that you aren't Amazon or Google.

eBay should have made half.com a powerhouse UPC/ISBN venue and Shopping.com a kick-butt shopping comparison/search service. Both have lagged due to eBay decision making mistakes.

[Cliff Aliperti]

Incredible amount of info here, Scot, thanks so much for posting.

Count me as one of those who have been saying "leave search alone" all this time, but this post does curb some of my worry and get me a little excited about the changes.

(Still, as long as it's a choice, I imagine I will default to "Ending Soonest" or "Newest Listings," but that's me the buyer. My seller self sees some promise here, and if it's realized perhaps I'll change my shopping habits).

My favorite answer, and I hope it remains the correct answer, regards "Even Selection," and it is "The items are bumped, not dumped."

So if I understand this correctly, when I pop up 50 unique listings in a night (more than I usually do, but something I sometimes do), I'll only have 10 listings appear on any one page, but the other 40 listings will appear on other pages of the search (again, limited to 10 per page).

Am I wrong in thinking this gives us more coverage and greater buyer reach?

I do a lot of eBay shopping, and I must confess that once I recognize a seller's listings and "Not Interested" clicks on inside my head, then I'm scrolling to the bottom of the page without even looking and moving onto the next page. I'll repeat this process until I get past the listings I'm trying to avoid.

So if there are buyers shopping past me like this, which I hope there aren't, but am sure there are, then they're only going to see my listings in small bunches on more pages than they used to appear.

I really think this could be good. And by good, I mean good for buyers and sellers alike.

A question related to "Even Selection" -- If the requested search should call up 20 of my items, but there are only 25 listed from all sellers (including my 20), will all 20 of my items show up on the search results page? I hope they will.